NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/3284

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Path: cup.portal.com!Gemini2
From: [e-mail] (Gary Alan Peake)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: 27 Jan 1996 19:00:16 -0800
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>>So, we are 'positive' that they were cut because sales didn't measure up? Or
>>was it because C= UK was a seperate entity until being bought by Amiga Tech?
>>And being the rebels that bid against them, AT cut them? It happens in
>>business. Buy up the bad boys and then cut them out...
>
>C= UK were snipped off completely anyway. It was just the remnants of the old
>operation AFAIK. OK, AT UK messed up big time. Maybe they *were* made up of
>ex-C= UK staff (sans David Pleasance who has released a cynical attempt to cas
h
>in on Amigans in the form of a CD "based around the Amiga").
>
>Only two staff left now, AFAIK, but they are still AFAIK, from AT UK therefore
>C=UK.

And 'traitors to the cause' in the business world!

>>And is this not what Amiga Technologies is doing? Upgrading the initial
>>product and keeping it aimed at the same, first time buyers?
>
>They didn`t upgrade the A1200. And they released it at 100UK pounds above it`s
>last known price. To many UK owners it was *300* UK pounds above it`s last
>known price, since Currys and Dixons blew out their stocks for just 99-199 UK
>pounds (depending on region) in the final days of the Amiga as we knew it. OK,
>it was probably cost or below cost, but they were clearing the shelves for the
>consoles - and many of us (including me) missed the chance to snap them up at
>bargain prices. That could be one of the reasons that the A1200 didn`t take
>well in the UK. The other being the high price, and limited distribution, and
>zero advertising, etc etc etc etc (until you are sick of me saying the same
>three things)

So, now you're mad at Amiga Technologies because you missed out on the
bargain basement sell-out. Thought it would never come back and didn't want
to 'waste' that money? Now, it's back and you're mad as hell cause you feel
taken. You took yourself! And you are probably sick of me saying this, BUT
Amiga Technologies wasn't your typical 'start-up' company. They bought the
rights and patents to a few hundred boxes of parts scattered and, in some
cases, held hostage for moneys owed. With a small band of dedicated, hard
working people, Amiga Technologies got the parts to the production
facilities, sourced other needed parts, made almost every computer show in
the world, released press releases that no one printed, battled idiots on
the nets who haven't 'approved' of any move they've made yet, and still
managed to get product to market in the fastest time of almost any company
(in the same situation) in the world.

Part of the problem is the number of people who have never taken Economics
101! You NEVER sell a product for less than the market will bring unless you
are stupid or too filthy rich to be in business in the first place. The name
of the game is 'maximize profits' which Escom has done very well at in the
past. None of us know what the 'real' cost is to Amiga Technologies for the
products they are delivering. BUT, it isn't cheaper for them than it was for
C= when they were going bankrupt and already had supplies handy for
production.

Amiga Technologies would also be ignorant to say today 'just wait a few
months and the price will drop'. We all know what would happen.

It's time for us to 'get real' and take each step for what it is. We need to
quit looking for some conspiracy afloat in the Amiga Technologies camp to
'rape and pillage us'. We need to quit calling the computer 'crap' and start
making positive and constructive suggestions. If I impugned your work or
Eric's ... either of you would be fighting mad!! BUT, it's ok to tell Dr
Kittle and Gilles Bourdin that 'we' think they are out to rob us, that what
they are pushing is 'crap', and that 'we' could care less about trying to
help get the Amiga back into the limelight it once held.

You can call me an 'apologist', a 'yes-man', or anything else that you'd
like. I always view the source of expletives and consider that using them
somehow makes some people feel bigger. For a positive view of what I'm
talking about, look at Eric's replies to George!!

>First time buyers do not buy computers on the basis of what is best. They look
>at the adverts, the blurb, then they go into the shops. Then they buy a PC
>becaue their mate said the Amiga is dead, overpriced, crap, etc.

This may be true for some, but MANY people are 'impulse buyers'. I bought my
first A500 on a lark. Was walking thru a shopping center and saw a ball
bouncing on a screen in a Software,Etc store. Went in, played a little, and
took the thing home. Even being a long time C64, C128, etc fanatic ... I did
not make the C= connection until I took everything out of the box at home!



>>>I refer the honourable gentleman to the AT UK debacle, where, if he has read
>>>any news reports, AT has fired all but two of the staff and moved them to
Escom
>>>HQ in the UK. This is due in no small part to the lack of advertising pre-Xm
a
>s
>>>whic resulted in "poor sales". I would hazard a guess that most of the Amiga
>>>buyers who bought a Magic pack Amiga were existing Amiga owners looking to
>>>upgrade, not the fabled "new" buyer. IMHO most of us stayed well clear becau
s
>>>in many people`s opinions (including the retailers) the AT A1200 was
>>>overpriced.
>>
>>Or, is it a case of getting rid of the excess baggage?
>
>What excess baggage do you mean?

The blokes who rallied against them in the bidding war for C=.

>>T.V. ads and magazine ads and interviews don't count as marketing? I read
>>here that Gilles was seen on tv? I saw interviews in some of the Amiga mags?
>
>Not in the UK, mate, and that was only 1 show, you can`t expect everyone in th
e
>country to be tuning in to Komputer Klub (or whatever that Belgian program was
>called) - And Interviews in Amiga mags don`t exactly get read by newbies do
>they?

Yes, they do! Do YOU read any PC mags? Nuff said!!

>>This is an EXCELLENT idea!! Have you posed this scenario to the good Dr or
>>to Gilles? They just might buy it if it looks monetarily worthwhile ... you
>>never know if you don't try it on for size!
>
>Wow! Agreement from Gary! ;) Seriously, this is a sensible idea, as I`ve been
>trawling the Internet mags for a decent service provider that will help me set
>up my Amiga at home, and, with the exception of the relatively poor service of
>Demon, everyone else seems to cater for PC`s only. Many folks out there don`t
>even support Macs!

I will ALWAYS agree with constructive, positive feedback that would help
bring the Amiga back! I will NEVER let the negatives go without a response
though!

>At the mment, AT seems to be letting IBM cash in on the Surfer pack.

Now maybe some will see why the US lawyer type got to keep his job? Remember
the sig "egoff.ibm.net"?


 If IBM are
>paying AT for the priveledge, and allowing them to drop the price of the Surfe
r
>pack to consumer levels I can live with it. Otherwise, AT should be seriously
>thinking about setting up AT Internet to supply Amigans worldwide. I`m sure
>many wuld switch from Demon, or wherever they are if:
>
>1) It offered similar prices to what they were paying at, say, Demon.

It should be relatively close.

>2) It offered proper support for Amiga, and maybe licensed soemthing Like Thor
>for general use.

Why Thor?

>3) AT made it clear that any profits from AT Internet went straight into R&D.


And now, folks, we want to control the profits that Amiga Technologies makes
too?   :)

>e. Too expensive. People don`t care what hoops you had to jump through
>>>to get it on the street, they won`t pay *more* for a machine which "died" 1
>>>year ago.

Oh really? Seems that thousands already have?   :)


>>What about inflation? Nothing costs today what it did a year ago!
>
>No, PC`s are cheaper (!). The Amiga must be cost reduced - maybe using standar
d
>PC parts, starting with 3.5" IDE HDs - and proper HD disk drives.

PC's are being sold just above cost because of the strong competition and
the flooded market conditions. This is NOT yet the case for the Amiga!

>>>3) Hardware. The disk drive fiasco wasn`t good. For the few Amigans who
>>>actually thought about getting an A1200, the disk drive problem scared them
>>>off.
>>
>>
>>Why? I like being able to buy a computer with any size hard drive I want.
>
>I meant the dd/hd floppy disk drive. Not hard drives. Setting up the hardware
>to handle standard HD floppies would be a good selling point and would be
>cheaper than the expensive hacks AT have to use at the moment just so Old Paul
a
>can get data at the right speed. Replace her with a DSP I say!.

At the time this was being bandied about, Amiga Technologies was interested
in getting machines produced. There was no time for any R&D. There was no
time for 'fixes'. Just get it back into production!!!

>>>4) What`s next? AT now have to consider how their fabled A1200Plus will fit
>>>into the market place. The wrong spec, price, or bundle could prove costly.
>>>IMHO, they have to reduce the price of the A1200 drastically. I could accept
>a
>>>Surfer pack at 399 (including the hard drive and modem etc.)  Clear out the
o
>l
>>d
>>>A1200 by flogging it off for 299HD or 199 no HD.
>>
>>Less than the 1200's have ever sold for? No tallying for inflation? This
>>will NEVER happen with ANY product ... in our lifetimes!
>
>>>>Who has said that Amiga Technologies is losing money? I haven't heard or
>>>>read that anywhere. Facts speak volumes! I do believe that Amiga
>>>>Technologies is lessening the 'load' on Escom's finances at the moment!
>>>
>>>Hmm, how many units sold? What were AT`s expectations?? Certainly much highe
r
>>>than actual sales. Why else would they all but ditch the AT UK operational
>>>staff?

Because they were part of the group that bid against Escom?


 They should have ditched a few of the less useful Escom Sales staff an
>d
>>>replaced them with more Amiga savvy folks. Even AT must realise here that jo
b
>>>motivation would be higher than your average spotty ex-Rumbelows salesman if
>>>they hired a bunch of Amiga experienced sales people.

How many times will we go thru this? First, everyone here is appalled that
Amiga Technologies will NOT sell Amiga's thru Escom stores. Then, we are
appalled that the Escom people don't know anything about the Amiga, yet may
be selling them. You and Eric can't have it BOTH ways!!!


>No need to get short with your incredulous replies Gary!

Didn't want to wear you out like it appears I did with Eric!  :)

>Youbetcha. In March, when the Surfer pack comes out, we`ll make our mind up. I
f
>the Surfer pack is indeed 1200DM, or approx. 600 UK pounds, then IMHO, it`s
>just too much. They haven`t moved the price of the A1200, they`ve just added
>the cost of the Surfer pack on top of an A1200. i.e they`ve just fitted the
>Surfer in with the existing Magic Pack. That`s a bad idea when you consider
>that a cheap 486/66/100/P60 setup with modem etc is a better bet for surfing
>than a relatively underpowered A1200 with a high price tag.

Then YOU need to get one!!! I'll fumble along with whatever Amiga
Technologies gives us. I'd certainly hate to 'cramp your style' any.  :)

>>>Good for you, but selling this plan in the UK will take some serious price
>>>cutting and marketing before the "big-boys" arrive.
>>
>>I know, I know ... as Harv said in a post to Gilles not too long ago 'we
>>want it all, we want it yesterday, and we want it for free'. No way, Jose!
>>Tain't gonna happen ... reasonable maybe, serious - I don't see it
>>happening.
>
>Neither do I, more`s the pity.
>
>>
>>>>If you are looking for a BIG PUSH into North America beginning tomorrow,
>>>>don't hold your breath. Amiga Technologies has said more than once that it
>>>>ain't gonna happen that way. The PPC is their inroad into the North America
n
>>>>market. THAT competes!!
>>>
>>>Not without marketing and a competitive price it doesn`t.
>>
>>Why can't we wait till it gets here before we start bitchin'?
>
>Um, it`s already here in the UK, and IMHO, it`s a disaster.

Wow!!! You guys have the PPC's in the UK??   :)

>>>Face it, you`re just a Yes man, and I don`t mean you`re a member of a 70`s
>>>supergroup, even if you liked Rick Wakeman in any way ;)
>>
>>Sorry, don't know Rick Wakeman? And, no, I'm not a 'yes man'. I just believe
>>that what I see is real. I don't go looking for doom and gloom. I don't have
>>the belief that the ONLY reason Escom bought the Amiga is to rape the
>>fanatics as some here feel. I happen to think that Amiga Technologies has
>>hired and contracted some people with heart and feeling. I happen to believe
>>that the difference between the Amiga and all other computers is the heart
>>and feeling and emotion that Dr Kittle, Dave Haynie, and a bunch of others
>>have left in each of our computers. I have read the plan in the speeches and
>>press releases and have seen them taking it each step of the way. They are
>>now about 1/3 of the way there, why not give them the benefit of the doubt
>>FINALLY and say 'well, they have come this far, surely they are going all
>>the way now'? How long do we continue to prophicize doom and gloom and rape
>>and pillage of the masses? How long do we doubt a company that has not lied
>>to us ONE TIME so far? These guys and gals are NOT C=!!!
>
>
>Hmm, Rick Wakeman, who did the music for Microcosm, who was prevenalent in tha
t
>super-band of the 70`s that you MUST have heard of -"Yes" the ones with the
>Roger Dean artwork? Never mind. Too crusty to remember, obviously.

Sorry ... I'm into the Beatles, The Who, The Eagles ... I don't play many
games on my Amiga.

>Yes, AT has hired some good people. But their product is not strong enough to
>sell at the prices they are demanding. I want the Amiga to succeed as much as
>anyone else, but I`m not in any way interested in buying any of their products
>at the moment until something comes along that`s WORTH buying...


Then don't ... but don't try and stop those who might with all the gloom and
doom stuff!

Gary
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